Should 4N give 2nd 3rd and 4th chances

Debating specifics isn't going to get you anywhere as those who are being talked about, aren't here to give their views. They would have been told their reasons for their "dismissal" from the forums.

There is one point you seem to keep missing Paul and that 4N runs and owns these forums, and if they feel the need to ban a member from participating then it's their choice. We can all have opinions on the decisions the 4N team make but in the end, it's their decision that counts.

Gareth, I'm getting slightly tired of you reading what you want to read and not what was written:

"A little naive Gareth; you forget I know what happened to all parties as 4N isn't the only communication conduit. As such I'm fully aware of the warnings situation and the lack thereof."

"I appreciate this isn't a democracy, and 4N have the power and the moral right to have whoever they want on the forum."

I hope now you've read these two quotes that you can move on. Being told why they're being binned isn't a warning, it's a statement of fact.

If you feel the need to remove me because I'm pointing out to people like Gareth that I've said something he says I haven't then that will be a shame. Similarly, there are a number of posts on other threads where I'm discussing member benefits or disadvantages and I'm told by some people that I'm being negative. I'm also being told privately that many other people can't see what the fuss is about and that they are reasonable points to raise. Anyway, far from negative. A happy membership is a renewing membership and if some lose 4N benefits because of reduced group levels, or possibly later on the removal of evening networking then not only will it affect the individuals but it will affect the credibility of the network and your bottom line.

As for warnings for the others who also fell under the banner of divisive, you'll be aware that we were all in constant contact and still are and this was something that was checked. However if they've all independently lied to me then I apologise, but they have said what they've said.

I'm hoping this post doesn't count in the final tally of things that have brassed you off, and that you'll allow me one right of reply, a sort of free shot. There have been many occasions when you've accused me of all sorts, from having a chip on my shoulder to following you around, to looking for a reason to bring your name into a conversation. On those occasions I've pointed out how it hasn't been the case and shown you why it couldn't have been the case, but no reply.

So if people are genuinely complaining, and if you are genuinely racking up points against me then it's down to me to shut up and fall in line or get booted off. So warning heard and understood, but if there is a future for me here I'd urge that you seriously read my posts and think of them in terms of looking out for members' interests, not trying to shoot you down.

Was there really complaints?, some saddos around.

Kev

I am genuinely concerned by the direction this thread (and others) are going these days.

Whatever happened to healthy debate with people having different, or opposing, views? The thing that is really bugging me is the vitriol and the hatred. Sometimes it is veiled sarcasm and other times it is "in ya face" insult hurling, but it does seem to have become a hallmark now whenever anyone says anything that the 4N faithful and/or Brad don't agree with.

I am all for debate. I am all for people feeling free to air their views and have them challenged robustly. What I am 100% against is either abuse or censorship. Piling in with "neghead" accusations and the like is not clever and it doesn't impress. Threats to ban someone just because they hold a different view are censorship, pure and simple. Calling it "divisive" may be a convenient term, but we are talking about one of the forum's most eloquent and intelligent posters here, not a troll, not abusive, not racist. If his views (or mine, or Kev's etc..) are hard to handle, then come back with intelligent discussion. Put-down's and threatened bannings only sweep issues under the carpet.

As far as complaints against PD are concerned, I have to echo Kev's incredulous comment. Are people really, genuinely complaining? About what? The fact that he holds different views? OMG, there are far, far worse comments than his on this forum every day. Indeed, there are probably far more dickheads still here than have ever been banned!! (That last bit is supposed to be humourous, but probably true nonetheless!)

By the way, to answer the OP, there is currently one member who has been banned in the past and allowed to return, so it can happen.

Hi Steve,

I read your last post with interest and can agree with  most of your comments, in summary you stated

"I am all for debate. I am all for people feeling free to air their views and have them challenged robustly. What I am 100% against is either abuse or censorship. Piling in with "neghead" accusations and the like is not clever and it doesn't impress." 

and then contradicted yourself by calling people dickheads because they have made comments you dont agree with.

"The fact that he holds different views? OMG, there are far, far worse comments than his on this forum every day. Indeed, there are probably far more dickheads still here than have ever been banned!! (That last bit is supposed to be humourous, but probably true nonetheless!)"

Now,I do not find 'dickhead' offensive if thats your opinion on someone or me come to that. I am new to this particular forum and have seen in a short while that debates very quickly get off thread and most of the time is spent debating who said what about who which is a lot easier to do in a forum as you can go back over the posts to check, as unlike in a face to face converation which requires memory. Like I said I agree with your comments on free debate and opposing views im am not sure if you have just added fuel to the fire by using 'veiled sarcasm' which has become the hall mark you bemoan?

Ian, my use of the word "dickheads" was merely a quote of the 4N MD, not original thought and it wasn't aimed at any specific person or persons. In making humourous reference to it, I did not suggest it was in any way referring to people I disagreed with, just people who write stupid stuff (of which there are plenty). That is not, I hasten to add, a crime!

Really not sure where the veiled sarcasm is! My words were pretty straightforward without any need to infer anything more.

Hi Steve, I totaly agree it is not a crime and like I said I agree with what you were trying to say in most part and was just trying to point out that we all have different views and must accept the fact.

People who write 'stupid stuff' are not dickheads because you think it is stupid.

My own view is that we are all grown ups here and it seems to be getting like a school playground at times, maybe a few need to 'grow a pair' and move on.

i actually enjoy it when paul and brad fight. Brad's getting much better at it. I dont want this to be a democracy.  

isnt this 4nbusiness section simply inviting contentious debate? so we should be a little more flexible in this area, me thinks. 

However i have thought that this whole section should be members only. It cant be healthy to see all these people turning their minds out about 4n for every one to see. Some of the stuff is nuttier than a squirrels breakfast.

also like any steering group or committee you should be able lose your right to contribute. Without your membership to the business section being under threat.

I would love it if the 4nbusiness section just became ra ra ra, then i would not have to flaming read all this naval gazing bunkum.

Brian, Totally agree and this is something I asked earlier in the thread.

I enjoy it too but feel some contributors are easily offended.

Dammit....my popcorn has run out!

Hope this thread does soon

Very true. Sycophantic comments are so not cool. Unless they are from your girlfriends. 

Don't agree that Brad is getting better at it though.

And by the way, democracy is just tyranny of the majority - contrary to popular belief,  there is no wisdom in crowds. Or at least it depends on the crowd.  Or