A little underwhelmed :-(

Is it the same people everytime or are the groups having a steady supply of visitors ?

We found at Bracknell, even when we had low numbers (sub-10) we were still getting a few visitors, and eventually we managed to get a few passporters and visitors to conicide and we had momentum.

Break down last night was 1 visitor, 1 passpoter, 5 'core members/regulars' and one '4N  Operations assistant and acting group leader, marketing assistant, regional leader etc'

That shouldve beenacancelled! Not good for the brand either.

I think the evening meetings are generally having slightly lower attendance than breakfast from what I see and hear but they are new & it takes time to build a core membership such that numbers are hitting 18 routinely & then increasing as the team promote to passporters & visitors.

Agree that the summer months can be challenging to keep momentum going if numbers are smaller to start with but think things will pick up in September.

I  think 8 people makes it hard to get a great vibe going in the room although that's not to say you won't meet your very best contact at that meet if they just so happen to be there too & you have lots of time to talk to them.

I think it's brilliant you've raised this Wendy, I'll reiterate what others have said about it being a funny month, but the best thing to do IMO would be to encourage new visitors too, so the group will go, and you'll get to meet people you want to in a less pressured 'salesy' environment! 

I'm sure it will pick up soon, and go visiting as many groups as you can!! x

Not good if there is only one team member. Round here if a group knows they are that light on team members substitutes (guest leaders) are pulled in from other groups.

I think every 4N member has, at some time, experienced both the small group (sub-10) and the big (20-30) group. There is no doubt that the whole atmosphere is completely different. It would be very easy to defend small groups as I certainly have had some very good times with only a few present, but that does not change the fact that there is a "critical mass" of people which will ignite that spark and seeing only a handful in the room is always a disappointment. I totally agree with the 4N estimate that this critical mass seems to happen from around the 18 mark.

Interesting to heat from Kirk that Yeovil was sub-10 last time out. I have been to this group many times in the past and have seen it go through the cycle at least twice. When I first went, it was locking out at 40. It then dropped as it has now before moving to Yeovil Football Club and getting back to 30-40. But it is still going and it has the capablity to come back!

Similarly, 4N's first ever group at Bridgwater was a regular 30-40, but when I did a 4sight there about 3 years back I think there were only around 15 (could have been my 4Sight to blame!). I have been to Exeter groups over the space of a couple of years and seen as many as 40, but as few as 12.Both of these groups are still going!

Conversely, we had groups in the same region that were an almost continual struggle to break through and which have all closed over the years (Tiverton, Wellington, Barnstaple, Newton Abbott and my group, Honiton).

There can be a whole load of contributing reasons for this, but it really does come down to the team and how they approach attendance. With any organisation which has voluntary attendance, it is always going to need an amount of effort to keep the numbers up. This is never so important as during the early days of a new group.

I hope things pick up for you, because you really do need to see 4N at its best with a 20+ group.

There are some smaller groups but do the rounds, I have come across three in the last week in the mid 30s but the best leads have come from the smaller ones.

Small groups,(8-10) will also not pay their way or make money for 4N.

I will try to make it across to the meeting as soon as I can. Unfortunately I am on holiday for the next meeting. I am the Area Leader for Falkirk, Stirling and Livingston and the averages are higher at these groups. I think as we only have one evening group in Scotland there are less members passporting to this group.

Hopefully I will be 4sighting there soon, and this will give you an insight on how to make 4N work for you. For my business is it often not the people in the room but who they know. I had a kind Tweet this morning from a 4N'er in Glasgow saying how I have been recommended to her by 3 other, different 4Ner's. I haven't been to a meeting in Glasgow for nearly 3 months but it proves a point!

See you soon and keep with it.

I'm probably not the best to give an opinion on 'numbers attending' here (given the recent events at Hyde) as I am still at 'odds with current thinking' at 4N, and Wendy I don't know how much networking you have done prior to joining 4Networking, I apologise if this sounds a little patronising as that is not my intent. However, on reflection I do firmly agree with one person that once said "it depends what side of the fence you view things from", and what you have joined 4N for...  after all, there are many reasons for joining a networking group or organisation!

a) If you are a 'paying member looking for opportunity to grow your business', one single person in a room can do that, you don't need 20+ in there. Although the more there are then 'perhaps' there is a better opportunity during a single session (not always the case though, as you only have so much time to chat during a meet). I have only experienced one 4N meeting that had more than 30 members BUT it was a nightmare. Too rushed, too noisy, Uncomfortably crushed into a small space, cold breakfast and yes - if I had been visiting for the first time I wouldn't have joined.

b) if you are a fairly new-to-business/networking individual, then you may well be looking for 'additional general support and assistance' or to 'understand how to get the most out of networking'. You may therefore find that some of the smaller, more intimate groups fits with you better because you would not be overwhelmed by a bigger attendance. Smaller Groups can help you develop your presentation skills, and help you to grow in personal confidence before you hit the bright lights of public speaking in front of larger groups of people. It is a valid point that many new recruits to 'networking' are petrified the first time they have to stand up and merely 'speak' to a room. One size surely does not fit all... So in that respect (as a paying member) it may be better to have the choice to opt for a smaller group should you wish to begin with.

c) If you are a 4Networking paid Director, Manager or Employee (of any description) then you are in business to make money and in that regard, size really does matter, and it very much IS a numbers game. 4N has to be seen to be in a constant developing movement forward (i.e more and more groups opening and more and more joining members) to entice more people to come and take a look at this fairly new 'phenomenon' on the networking circuit. But it's success will be viewed by its 'members' differently to the way the organisation views it - not by how many groups there are (you can't possibly attend them all anyway) - but by what ROI they get on their investment (remembering that ROI should be measured in help and assistance also - not merely in sales made)!

d) If you are a seasoned networker like myself, you tend to view things in a more circumspect way. Organisations, Groups and People will come and go, and with so many offerings for networking now growing in every direction, there is a great deal of choice out there. Some meet in the morning, some during the day and some in the evening. You know it's funny how some of those organisations who initially proclaim a 'uniqueness' based upon the time of day/week they meet, merely to change it later when they see other organisations 'stealing' a march on them by opening at a different day/time. I have learned over the 10 years or so I have been networking it is not the Organisation so much as the people you meet that is all important. Plus the fact that you are out there promoting yourself and your business to the wider business community rather than waiting for them to come and find you. In that regard, it is far more important to be surrounded by proactive, positive people who truly 'Get' what networking is about, and those that realize it is what you put in that counts - not merely what you get out. For in truth you will get more out the harder you work at putting it in in the first place.

Several respondents here have said the meeting with low numbers should have been cancelled - IMO that should never happen. That one 'dream client/supplier' could easily be one of the 8, 10 or 15 in the room and vital to you and your business. Let's face it, numbers are a comparative measure anyway and large groups need the experience of small groups to shine - If all groups were 24+ or even 30+ then an 18+ group would seem too small by comparison then, and probably attract calls to cancel/close. Which would be ludicrous!

Wendy, you have joined a GREAT networking organisation in 4N, at a time when lower numbers should be anticipated and cherished. Like the guys before me have said, give it time - things don't happen overnight in networking (someone once said the only 'likely' overnight success is burglary!). Use your 4N passport, get to as many groups as you can (big or small) and learn about 'through the room networking' (i.e. not just in the room) master that technique and it really won't matter if there are 4 people in the room or 40... IMO! Ask yourself "would you rather know 4 people with 1000 contacts each or 4000 with 1 contact each?" Only you can answer that and no one can tell you which to prefer.

Sincerely though, I hope you stay with it and get the returns you expect in the time frame you want it. It really does work, believe me, and when it does... WOW!.

Perfect example of 'through the room' networking! 

A question to the advocates of large group meetings - If large numbers are a pre-requisite to a good meeting, why do we value 1-2-1's so highly?

1. Greater choice for having quality 1-2-1's

2. Chance to have 3 different 1-2-1's at the next meeting (and the next...)

3. Not upsetting the venue owner by giving him unprofitable business.

4. Attracting visitors

5. Not having to "apologise" with euphemisms like "small, but beautifully formed"

6. Not having to pretend it was a great meeting when it wasn't.

7. I don't think the benchmark of 18+ constitutes "large" - just a good critical mass.

"Networking" is a word that gives a very big clue. It is considerably more difficult to build a network when you only meet with 7 other people than it is if you meet with 20. Especially so when you consider what "through the room" means.

There is absolutely no conflict between the merits of large groups and the concept of 1-2-1's.

...what Eric said! Good post.

Paul