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DVLA-SORN request for £80 fine to be paid

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Posted: 4th Oct 2010 - 20:22 Quote

At the back end of last year I sent off a Statutory Off Road Notification for by motorcycle. Some six-seven months later I received a notice of penalty, the £80, from the DVLA, I'm not the only one to be suffering this situation!

Watchdog recently did a piece on others who had suffered the same fate and it was found that the DVLA regularly 'loses', or does not receive a large quantity of mail, leaving motorists to face letters demanding payment and letters from debt recovery services asking for the money. A case has gone to court where it was found that the DVLA has neither statutory or legal powers to make such demands.

I'm wondering if any of the luminaries at 4N have any thoughts on this state of affairs?

 

 

 

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Posted: 4th Oct 2010 - 20:29 Quote

To add to this, we're receiving letters from Inter-Credit International demanding the £80 and threatening to clamp the bike (which is on private property).

 

 

 

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Mick Parry
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Posted: 4th Oct 2010 - 20:46 Quote

I SORNed my bike on line, that way you get an aknowledgement. (not that this helps you I'm afraid )

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Carl Nixon
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Posted: 4th Oct 2010 - 20:47 Quote

The other thing that the DVLA did was leave off peoples motorbike license entitlements when people switched from paper to plastic licenses. They simply lost their motor bike test results and as far as they were concerned these people never passed their tests and were not entitled to a motorbike license. A lot of people got caught out with that one including a police motorbike instructor who got done for driving without a license - he almost lost his job, his pension and was under investigation for possible fraud.

They still think there are thousands of people out there with missing motorbike entitlement on their licenses. Technically they are deemed to be breaking the law

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Posted: 4th Oct 2010 - 21:02 Quote

As far as I know, there's no law that states they can impose these penalties, and once your letter is posted, it's then the property of the recipient, proof of postage or not...

 

 

 

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G smith
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Posted: 4th Oct 2010 - 21:19 Quote
Quote:

At the back end of last year I sent off a Statutory Off Road Notification for by motorcycle. Some six-seven months later I received a notice of penalty, the £80, from the DVLA, I'm not the only one to be suffering this situation!

Watchdog recently did a piece on others who had suffered the same fate and it was found that the DVLA regularly 'loses', or does not receive a large quantity of mail, leaving motorists to face letters demanding payment and letters from debt recovery services asking for the money. A case has gone to court where it was found that the DVLA has neither statutory or legal powers to make such demands.

I'm wondering if any of the luminaries at 4N have any thoughts on this state of affairs?

This is a very common ocurrence indeed. There is a forum http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=7738 which has discussions on this sort of issue. Not sure if this will be of help to you but may be worth a look.

Good luck getting it sorted

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Liz Sparkes
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Posted: 4th Oct 2010 - 22:16 Quote

Hah, I'm not the only one then! last year my car was written off by my insurance company. I got the cash,Direct Line legally got my car. I still had almost a years tax on it, so I duly sent off the change of ownership docs together with the claim for return of tax (in the same envelope). I got a letter back saying they couldn't refund my tax as I hadn't returned my docs. Go figure!!

So it appears they loose documents AFTER they have been opened...

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Peter Lincoln
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Posted: 4th Oct 2010 - 22:27 Quote

I forgot to SORN an old car once. When I called up about the fine and said sorry the guy on the phone halved it for me. A little bit of manners go a long way :(

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Mark Gibson
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Posted: 4th Oct 2010 - 23:31 Quote

I know a lot of classic car enthusiasts who have been caught out by this scam. I always sorn my cars online and get a receipt. It just highloights what an inefficient and dinosaur of an organisation the dvla is. You have virtually no recourse on the matter either. Their argument is that you should chase up your application if you do not receive acknowledgment.

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Baz Cooper
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Posted: 5th Oct 2010 - 00:54 Quote

we do vehicle disposal and everything is done on line where possible,

We also let our autorised treatment facility inform dvla as well as us, so DVLA cant wriggle out of "we werent told"

online is the answer without a doubt,

for your problem i cant see there a way out apart from paying it

good luck with it

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Posted: 5th Oct 2010 - 01:00 Quote

A case like this has already been thrown out of court: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=846874&mid=0

..over the matter of a lost SORN. In Horsham County Court last month, Mr Peck explained that he had sent back his notice in compliance with the law.

The DVLA first claimed that he hadn't: then that he had done so late. Besides, even if it had lost it, he should have phoned it when they failed to send him an acknowledgement. In this, it was relying on the small print on the relevant forms (V11 and V890) which stated that if do not receive an acknowledgment letter within four weeks, you need to ring.

Once more, according to Mr Peck, a judge begged to differ. In his view, the DVLA have no statutory power requiring anyone to ring them – or otherwise respond - should they not receive an acknowledgment letter.

 

 

 

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Bill Ryan
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Posted: 5th Oct 2010 - 08:04 Quote

I am sorry for your predicament here paula.

Not sure of the law surrounding this 'narrow' issue but..

what you seem to have is a situation where it is your word that you posted it and the DVLA saying they didn't receive it.

Nothing more.

On basic principles not the best place to be running a defence from.

i would be wary of relying too much on these legal reports of 2 cases in front of District Judges in the Magistrates Court. One has different facts and one sounds like a bit of a jolly from the particular judge. You never know but this has the hallmarks of a freak result not likely to be repeated. Still if you fancy a battle :)

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Posted: 5th Oct 2010 - 09:43 Quote

It does seem ambiguous. But with all government departments you are caught between complex rules and ineptitude. If you do phone to check your submission is there, all you will get is a someone saying no. Seriously. You try it.

I did this to the VAT office once. I phoned to check they had received an application. No, they said. So I sent another. Yup..you have guessed, it..with two applications now received, they kicked out the request.

Stand firm Paula. You have not committed an offence, you should not pay a fine.

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Steve Smethurst
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Posted: 5th Oct 2010 - 13:28 Quote

The DVLA seems to be a prime candidate for Cameron's cuts.

Here's another example of systematic ineptitude:

A few days ago I was caught doing 40 in a 30 limit. Automatic fine and three points. I have no problems with that; "Gor blimey guvnor, it's a fair cop."

Sitting in th police car, I was cautioned while the constable received details of my car and license over his radio.

He then asked me to produce my license, so I gave him the plastic card which I always carry.

Apparently, this counts as failure to produce a license because I did not have the paper version as well.

So, I am required to produce both parts at a police station within 7 days.

An exhaustive search of my filing system failed to find the paper. I call DVLA and ask what to do (having paid the fine already). DVLA says they can send me a duplicate for £20 and it could take 10-14 days.

I go to the police station two days after my ticket, and tell them my tale of woe. Apparently, loads of people lose their paper license. Nothing they can do. I am now charged with failure to produce a license, and cautioned again.

As an eternal optimist I live in hope that the duplicate will arrive in time before the court takes action on this second "offence".

What really bugs me is that all the information they need is on a database. The constable accessed all the details of my license, even down to the fact that I wear glasses. He could confirm that I was me, not a car thief, because I provided ID - the plastic license.

What is the point of having two parts of a license when you need to show both of them anyway?

The only explanation anybody could give me is that the points are recorded on the paper version, but this in only a replica of what's already on the database, and when you do get points you are issued with an amended plastic license which also has your points encoded in the serial number.

Oh Right Hand, please talk to Left Hand!

By the way, how many of you out there can find your paper license? Did you know that if any of the DVLA-held details are incorrect you are liable to a £1000 fine?

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