GOING GLOBAL - Ling

I have been listening to this "Going Global" thing, for 4N, but I urge a bit of caution in the language.

In fact I sell goods into China, last month my (and my coDirector's) business made £800 gross profit, but I don't call it "Going Global", I call it exporting some stuff into China. We pay one self-employed person, part time in China, costing us max £100 a month.

I think there is a danger of overstating the case about "Going Global", especially before a penny has been made and profits are heading into 4N.au or 4N Pty or whatever it will be called (or back to 4N UK). For example, it may lose money and then you could call it "Going Bust Globally" and any idiot can do that.

I would just urge caution before the fanfare gets too much louder. I hope it is a major success and I am sure will be welcomed by small Australian business, but dealing with a massively diverse, sparsely populated and geographically challenging country like Australia is different to the densely packed and sardine-tin like UK business sector.

My problem is there is no linkage between the two markets for 4N. There is little linkage between small businesses here and small businesses in Australia.. UK and Aus, hmmm? I could see UK-Eire, but UK - Aus are two completely stand alone markets so 4N gets few economies of scale. Matter of fact, this could create big costs of scale. Not saying it can't be done, but Australia seems a VERY strange choice of country to start with and needs massive effort due to the distance. Logistically it must be one of the 2 most difficult places to oversee from the UK.

Careful, this Australian adventure could eat cash like one of those giant toilet-living Australian spiders eats flies.

Take it easy, Brad!

Austrailia is massive.

Perth, Melbourne... it is actually bigger than USA. Where are you starting?

Population of Great London (607 square miles) = 7,500,000

Population of NSW (310,000 square miles) = 7,200,000

What time will people have to get up to travel to their nearest breakfast I wonder? You'd want more than 40 seconds once you got there wouldn't you?

But it's a nice place for holidays

I would imagine the opportunity was identified because of existing contacts there, rather than a random "spin the globe and see where it stops" moment. I'm sure the 4N directors have thought it through, it's been talked about for at least a year in public. Are people saying "It'll never work?"

Anything "can" work.

This really is a "good thing".

As a member, I would like to know what value it adds to my membership I paid for.

I'm with you lot in that Aus is not really the best place for global expansion. I can only see the call for a maximum of 3 groups in Sydney then 1 or 2 in the other major cities.

4N in the US - Not gonna happen unless they do a tie-in with an already established network, BNI for example.

Well, good luck, get on with it.

I would like to see it happen. I have friends in Ozz, so I will ask them to look out for it. It does give a different meaning to Passport. ha ha, imagine going to a checkin desk with a 4N Passport. lol. you'd get arrested. You also need a VISA for Ozz.

Where you starting?
(Where next? the moon? - really couldn't get any further away if you tried)

Also as I understand it, it's being set up under license? So actually the risk to the core business is minimal...

But I also think that inviting the 4N top brass to "be cautious" before shouting something from the hill tops is a bit like asking a greyhound to "stay" while a rabbit runs out in front of it! It just ain't going to happen! 4N was built on hype, and will grow on hype. Long may it continue. :)

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the advice and we will take every comment on board as we progess our Global opportunities.

However let me assure everyone the expansion into a global business has been considered very carefully and is being driven by demand. Australia is a long way away, but very similar to us in the way they do business and with a very strong economy. The mention of China was a good one as we have no plans to go there currently. China is still very restrictive on how they network and 4N is not right for then yet and I agree with Ling about the difficulty of making a profit.

I hope you will see from my response to this post that we have considered our options globally and will be careful, but as they say "You can't make omelettes without breaking eggs" so we need to go for it and the time is right to do that now!

I would say that China (taken regionally or City by City) is a better bet, myself... as the massive growth, number of businesses and concentration factor would provide a fantastic opportunity. The money swilling in China is enormous. I am not sure China is restrictive on the way they network. I think that is just invented. As long as you are not political (and 4N seems not), China is arguably the most fertile territory that could be considered. Networking in China is a mainstay of how they do business anyway, so all you are doing is flipping an existing willingness to Network into the 4N model.

Could I suggest that Rebecca from Cathay Trade would be an ideal person to work with and to ask about this? There is also a massive UK connection with China, as so many businesses want to do trade with the UK, so there is much more of an overlap. Any foreign initiative is sucked up gratefully, in China.

China is half price to get to, cheaper to operate in and half the time difference away to visit.

I am still unsure how Australia with its geographical difficulties and sparse population is going to work, as the distances outside population centres are massive and poorly connected. You are almoset forcing 4N into a much less physically connected environment, and the 4N premise is based around physical meetings it seems.

I'm not trying to be negative, understand the licencing model (franchise???) but you rely on the character of the licencee a lot.

Why not prove the foreign model with a close and easily managed country like Ireland, first? That's what I'm really confused about... I would always do the easy and low cost and controllable stuff first.

We like a challenge.. English speaking countrys first.

Ling - my God, I'm agreeing with you.... What's happening ??

Her point about the obvious China - UK business link is a very powerful one, and UK SMEs would love to get an edge on bigger competitors here, and 4N could be teh way to achieve that - hugh member added value.

Ling - note this is a one off agreement, it may not happen again for a while.

It's not bigger for the purposes of 4N - large land mass is a serious problem for something like 4N if the population is scattered sparsely.

That said, 4N is certainly a scaleable business, and if it's already everywhere in the UK, expansion can only come from moving the model abroad. Best of luck to you Brad - hopefully it'll take off for you, I'm sure the size of places like the USA and Australia are going to pose some problems you've not come across, but on the flip side each state in the US is like a country, so state-by-state focus could prove fruitful.

We've moved into European markets and it's proved very successful, it just takes a scaleable business model, careful planning, hard work and big gonads.

Although I agree with Ling in principle do not dismiss the advantages to you the members of having potential contacts in different countries. I have no idea how it is being set up, but on another networks I am a member of I have made some excellent contacts around the world. Obviously that is not relevant to all businesses as some only deal locally but for those looking to deal internationally take every opportunity to get to understand the cuture and way of things of different countries before spending money.

I opend a business in Marrakech last year, one with staff , 2 properties and lots of gear so I know how difficult it is to open and run international businesses it is extremly easy to get burned and it is a lot harder than running a business in the UK. However, that is not to say it should not be done the world is rapidly getting smaller and opportunity abounds for those that want to take it and have a bit of adventure.

English speaking countries are the obvious target for a English speaking networking site, but you will be up against lots of established networks. If it was me I would be looking at China and India and teh developing world.

I don't see much 'cross pollenisation' between the UK 4Ners & the Kangaroo Molesters, but if someone would like to sponsor me to do a 4sight tour (ideally when the Ashes is on) I'll be happy to.