In the 5 years of the organisation.. 4N we've banned 5 people..

you was touch and go at one point Brian TBH.. FEAR MY BANNING WAYZzz

Its a bit one sided, I know of 489 people that have banned 4N in 5 years !

I'm intrigued and concerned at the same time. Having a love of language leads me to question the difference between "being banned" and being "not welcome" at a particular event. Being "not welcome" might indicate that a person may attend, but will be followed around by people with sharp sticks who will prod that person from time to time to let him know that somewhere else would be a great place to be. But the indication in this case is that entry will be denied in the first instance. That's "Banning".

I'm also intrigued by the OP which says:

"I sent an email earlier to Michael Palmer as follows... along with his response, why am i posting this? Because Mike decided to go loud online about MY BANNING OF HIM!

He's not welcome at our xmas do. This isn't about freedom of speech. Anyone can say what they want about me or 4N, whether i'll agree with it or not, is a different matter, but I've never once edited out a post or an opinion.

Seriously, if you're going to aim at assasinating my character make sure you represent the facts. Or perhaps the reason you are reluctant to get your facts in order is i'm not the bad man you are trying to paint a picture of.

Make your own minds up."

The reality is that Mike did indeed make a post on another forum about the banning, in which he admitted his part in being negative about 4N and the support given to him in the past. He also referred to falling out with Brad on Twitter, which I and many others witnessed in real time, so no mis-representation there. In fact nothing the hierarchy has written here is in conflict with anything Mike said on the other forum. So is he being denied access because he dared to open his mouth?

Brad, despite your protestations about this NOT being about supressing freedom of speech, it's difficult to see how that's not the case, particularly when you referred on another thread to "neg-heads" outstaying their welcome. You may not have edited out a post or an opinion, but you've just edited out a whole person.

Tamsen has said:

"The reality is that you have been informed by the MD on behalf of the board that you are not welcome at the 4N party because we will not risk your fundamental negativity impacting on what is a positive occasion.

I am alerted daily by 4Ners who are alarmed by the toxicity you display online. My response is always that the choice to play this toxicity out online is entirely yours. Similarly, the choice to not allow this toxicity in our space is ours."

So the clear implication is that making negative comments about 4N can lead to someone in the hierarchy making the decision not to tolerate it here. That sounds (to me) like a very clear instruction to everyone that only positivity is desirable.

Where this concerns me fundementally is in the area of what can or can't be said not just here, but anywhere else.

I am a great supporter of 4N, and promote it whenever I can. I have many clients and friends gained through this forum and encourage others to use it when I find out they're not. But recently I held back on a comment I wanted to make because of the implied threat in Brad's "neg-head" response. I know others who have similarly bitten their tongues. None of us want to lose access to the business opportunities the forum brings. But now I realise that making a comment elsewhere which I may be too nervous to make here is also dangerous to me. This is because my fellow 4Nr's are watching and reporting back. So the reality is that I'll forget about expressing my views as the reporting faction, through Brad could damage my business. Is that how you want to be perceived Brad?

I think Neil Pie has it right. Mike Palmer isn't such a big fish that he's suddenly going to gain a cult following so he would have been better ignored. Banning him is bad enough and he has every right to comment on it wherever he wants providing he represents the truth. He's clearly done just that. My biggest problem lies in the appearance of this thread. Again, the majority of people would never have known anything about it, but such a hoo-hah has now been made that it might well become one of the talking points of the party.

I thought long and hard about posting on this thread but my concern about the freedom to talk openly, which started with the veiled warning on another thread, has taken over. If this is my last post it won't have been my choice, but Brad, there are times when you need to put your business head on and leave your emotional one at home, despite it being "the way I rollz".

Well, I'm a noob so it will probably seem a bit presumptuous of me to comment on this one, but I thought I'd throw in my two penn'orth all the same. Sometimes I think it's helpful to hear what someone outside the loop thinks.

I know exactly what this sort of situation is like. I run a non-business forum and there have been plenty of hot-headed exchanges and character issues over the years. When you're in the thick of it there is an all-consuming intensity that takes over. This is strangely perpetuated by the nature of the net, where comments are sealed in amber and revisited and delays in repsonse keep the spat going like a real-life argument in ultra slow-motion.

It's difficult in that type of situation to see outside the mist, but the problem is when people come along who are unfamiliar with it all the situation looks very different. Grievances are often entirely understandable, but it's how you choose to deal with them that's the key issue and I would always advise privately.

Again, it's the particular quality of the net that encourages ill-advised responses. A true community such as this can feel like a more 'closed space' than it is. The internet is never a closed space - this is a window to everyone and that's why I think Paul's comment about business and emotional heads is the right one.

Would someone welcome a new client to their office and then strike up with, "And by the way, let me tell you about this complete a-hole that's been bad-mouthing the company..." It doesn't create the best impression and since 4N is a business I don't think that does it any favours.

I don't know anything about the rights and wrongs of the fallout, but drawing attention to it with a public announcement - whilst understandable given the way emotions work - probably doesn't help the brand.

Squeeze a spot and you'll leave a great red patch for ages and maybe even a scar. Leave it alone and within a few days no one will know it was ever there.

/presumptuous interjection.

[Reading this while eating a bacon sandwich]
Squeezing spots: Rambo is quoted as saying "don't push me". Arnie said "I'll be back".

Loving the analogy about a long slow motion argument. Hilarious.

4N online is like a Soap Opera - when is 4N.TV coming online?

Just wondering when Peggie is gonna come out and tell you all to stop it.

Skeets, get out of my pub, go on, get out!

Doug - it isn't - These are real people and real situations. You may be using a fake name and no company details but some of us do and use 4N to get business.

Treating this place otherwise is irresponsible IMO unless like Crump/Flip et al you add value to the debate.

I fear this thread has done more harm than good for 4N and should not be aired for public viewing like a soap opera.

Ohhh no, here comes Pat Butcher....

EDIT: Vikky, I was only joking. It is social media. This is what SOCIAL media is. AND even snoop doggy dog thinks the rovers return is real.

AND: I'm using my "social handle", cos there is more social that there is business on the forum. Anyway, where's Ken Barlow?

Ahem,

as do I too. I just switched because I hate being mocked.

DM JUST RECEIVED:

You can't tell me, that this whole thing isn't totally funny and brought on by people behaving like numpties.! "Well, you said X to Y" and "that means, I don't like you". AND "If I don't like you, then I can't meet you, I don't want any of MY friends to meet you, and I don't want to know you" AND "defo don't trust you".

It is silly, petty and ridiculous.

AND I really am PRESSING F5 waiting for the next piece of mellow drama to unfold..

It is Sunday after all. WATERMELON...? Do PEOPLE not TALK on the TELEPHONE anymore?

EVERYONE is learning about SOCIAL MEDIA... if this is "how to do it" or "how not to do it", then I'm pleased to be part of the learning curve.

SO, where is Pat Butcher?

I was so hoping to read an announcement of number six being Tweeter Skeeter.

Your pointless garbled nonsense, un-amusing wind-ups and just general guff is making this Forum a mockery.

As Vicky says above this is a Business Forum, part of a 50:50 Social & Business Networking Group and if you go back months, not years, it was a collection of people who really cared about each other sharing highs and lows, ideas and problems, their hopes and fears, with some fun and laughter along the way.

Just now it is a small collection of big egos, wind-up merchants, infantile irritants and antagonists doing their very best to disrupt others whilst pushing their own dubious nonsensical agendas.

The rush for the exits is palpable.

Mark

Mark,

are you a 4N member? or are you just hanging around for fun?
// your profile is saying you are not a Group Member of Passport Member. Agendas?

I am a good 4 months in to my membership and have met many people. several at the local showcase, some in York, been out for meals, had drinks, been paintballing, been to a number of meets. Never take 4N discussion out of this forum. Take the rough with the smooth.

Agenda: In fact, I am putting on a local low-key event with another 2x Yorkshire 4N'er, aside from putting some quite solid relationships down with people i've met.

Nothing non-sensical about it. I'm just "getting involved".

Where's Pat Butcher?
I am also interested as to "why" someone might not be able to go to a party - when it is a 4N Party. I get the distinct impression that Brad does not like me, this bothers me not, but after getting an invite, I am wondering what this means. #Nothing. Everyone got an invite - I thought it was just me. lol.

Just like Twitter is not TV. Neither is 4N. But after seeing Facebook release a movie, perhaps 4N should have a soap opera going. It's gripping.!! Really, it is.

I'm actually quite keen to go to the local 4N Xmas party.

Internet based forums are renowned for in-fighting and kick offs. The strength of 4N and its community should be measured by the way we pull together in times of need. No member should stick the boot in when someone is down or turn everything into a joke?

For most people the successes or failures of their venture can be related to putting food on the table or not, to that end it will always be taken seriously.

Doug, you have so much you could offer this community, much more than wise cracks, one liners and non-descript innuendos. Maybe you need to have an ego to succeed in business, I don't know, what I do know is compassion and helpfulness may be seen by many as weaknesses, but these traits have been at the forefront of the success of my business.

Craig,

I quite agree. You're preaching to the converted. Really you are.

The style here is "wise-cracks" and "jokes", from the top. It baffled me too. But after reflection, I kind of understood it a little and as such am "selling less" to "sell more". KISS - IT (AKA Let's keep it social stupid).

Everyone needs to put food on the table.

What's wrong with a joke?
Everyone else does it // this is the online culture, i've just given in (for a bit)

Anyway...

What soap TV Star are you?